Mr Bühler what was the purpose of your journey to Croatia? 
 
My interest in Croatia began in 1996, when it applied to join the Council of Europe. At the time, I was the spokesman for my parliamentary group in the Council of Europe. Today, Croatia is a highly active member of the Council of Europe and has been for the past five years. Moreover, WEU is carrying out a demining operation (WEUDAM) in Croatia, which is due to end in late November, and I wanted to see the results. 
 
What was your impression of Croatia? 
 
The presence of mines is still a huge problem for Croatia. It not only paralyses the country’s economic and social development, it is something Croatia simply cannot cope with. The mines are an obstacle to farming, tourism and to the resettlement of refugees returning from Yugoslavia. 
 
What is the scale of Croatia’s problem with mines? 
 
The figures vary. Some NGOs put the number of mines at almost 2 million. People working with the United Nations and WEU to whom I spoke talked of a million or so unexploded mines and bombs. That is less than in Afghanistan or Cambodia, but almost 8% of Croatian territory is strewn with mines, laid by belligerents on both sides, including in public open spaces. There are mine fields in the centres of villages, making them uninhabitable. Appalling accidents occur frequently. Mines are an insidious sort of weapon, they kill or maim even in peacetime. 
 
What has WEU done about the mines? 
 
In 1999, under pressure from the Assembly, the EU and WEU began to provide technical and organisational help to Croatia’s public mine-clearance centre, the CROMAC. Initially nine military experts, subsequently reduced to four, helped optimise Croatian efforts to speed up mine clearance using modern techniques. Various EU/WEU member states have since provided over EUR 750.000 and supplied equipment such as metal detectors. However Croatia is also riddled with plastic explosives. 
 
How did you feel when you were in the minefields? 
 
Quite strange. Of course I had every confidence in the professional expertise of the Croatian mine clearance teams. Demining is an exhausting job, physically and psychologically, which many people do only because, in economically underdeveloped regions it pays much higher than average. Every centimetre of land needs to be checked out. Police dogs are also used and on level ground machines may be in use as well. Croatia has also proposed a whole range of innovations in this sphere. 
 
What is the best way of helping Croatia? 
 
Demining is very expensive. A single mine costs between EUR 5 and 25. To neutralise a mine costs up to EUR 1.000. The UN and WEU experts confirmed the figures given to me by the Croatian ministry responsible. Over EUR 1.25 billion needs to be spent between now and 2010. I think there has to be some fresh thinking about direct financial aid. But there is also a need to continue with consultation missions like the WEU ones. There are quite major gaps in management which are preventing work being done even more quickly. The Stability Pact would provide an appropriate framework of assistance. Croatia, for its part, could also contribute to a more effective mine clearance operation by having greater recourse to foreign demining firms. 
 
Mines are a world-wide problem extending way beyond the borders of Croatia. What demands would you make? 
 
The 1997 Nobel Peace prize was awarded to the international anti-personnel mines campaign. This was an important signal to the world. The Ottawa Convention also offers an appropriate basis for preventing the spread of mines and working towards eliminating them completely. But China and the United States, two of the principal mine exporting countries have not signed the Convention. If information proves correct concerning the use in Afghanistan of cluster bombs, which are not classified as mines but which work in the same way, this really would be a step backwards. 
 
 
The interview took place 23 October 2001. Mr. Bühler went to Croatia 22 and 23 October 2001. Questions: press service of the Assembly of WEU.